TWiT+ Club Shows 757 Transcript - Bagels & Bandwidth

Please be advised that this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word-for-word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-free version of the show.
 

Leo Laporte [00:00:00]:
This is twit comments. Salt Hank says make a bagel. So I guess Salt Hank's in there. Oh, there it is. Okay, we are live. Hey, everybody. Hey, Salt Hank. I told my son, I said, don't think I'm stealing your thunder here, but I am gonna do some cooking.

Leo Laporte [00:00:23]:
And the reason we're doing cooking is because we have this beautiful setup which you really can't see well. You can see one camera there. This is going to be. We're testing all of this for the Black Hat Conference, which is coming up in August. We're going to do Windows Weekly and security now from the threat locker booth. So we want to. So Anthony's gone out. The wonderful Anthony.

Leo Laporte [00:00:45]:
Oh, is that me? Sorry. The wonderful Anthony Nielsen has gone out and purchased thousands of dollars worth of equipment, including a mixer and cameras and these new microphones, because it's going to be a noisy environment. And I said, well, we should. He said, we should test it. I said, well, I am going to be making bagels on Thursday. Would you like to watch? So that's what I'm doing now. And actually, before I begin, it's very important, and I know Salt Hank would agree with me. Hygiene is everything in the kitchen.

Leo Laporte [00:01:16]:
So I'm going to wear this silly hat so that the headphones don't fall into the dough. And that really doesn't look good with the headphones. But this, I'll just show you real quickly. This. The. This is the. The site that I. That I love.

Leo Laporte [00:01:33]:
This is Maurizio's, the Perfect Loaf. And these are the bagels I am making roughly his recipe by Mauricio Leo. The difference is that he's actually adapted his recipe and it does it a little differently now. And I have mixed some stuff in from my. My hero, Kenji Lopez Alt and his Serious eats. He has a very good bagel recipe, but the difference is his bagel recipe is with yeast. Mine. Uh oh, Anthony, can you reach that? Mine is with something different.

Leo Laporte [00:02:09]:
This is a live. This is Dolores. I want to introduce you to Dolores. Dolores is starter. And if you could only smell this. Oh, I feed this. This is a live culture with yeast. So instead of using.

Leo Laporte [00:02:25]:
Instead of using processed yeast, this is yeast from the air that's just been growing. I just fed it with rye. I refeed it with rye flour periodically. We're really fortunate in Petaluma because we have a mill in town that's considered one of the best in the country. It's central milling and Keith Jastrow. So this is like a baker's paradise. I go there and this is the organic stone ground rye flower that I feed Dolores with. She's named Dolores because I got her from Angie.

Leo Laporte [00:03:00]:
Right, that makes sense. No, Angie is my hairdresser, my barber. She's not a hairdresser, she's a barber. And she and I talk about baking while I'm getting my hair shorn. And I mentioned that I make sourdough bagels. And she said, oh yeah, I do too. And when I, when I started trying to lose weight, when I went on Ozempic, I threw my starter out. This is more than a year ago.

Leo Laporte [00:03:22]:
I threw it out, I put it in the trash. I said, no more bagels. But then recently I've had a craving for bagels. So I said, hey, I remember you had a starter. She said, yeah, Dolores. She says it's in the car because she dehydrated it. Was going to give it to a friend. I said, 20 bucks, I'll take it.

Leo Laporte [00:03:42]:
So this was about a month ago, two months ago. So that's Dolores. She's been growing. And that's one of the things you can do with a starter, is you can give it to friends and you can dehydrate it. She's. You spread it on a wax paper sheet, you let it dry out, then you break it up. And that's what she did. She gave it to me.

Leo Laporte [00:03:59]:
And I guess these survive. So that's where we are. Let me show you what else we're doing. I'm starting. The water here is starting to boil. The oven is turned on. We're going to do a convection oven at 475 degrees for 20 minutes. This is a little bit of a different bagel.

Leo Laporte [00:04:18]:
It started two nights ago. I took Dolores and I made what they called the Levin or levain, which is just basically the starter. You put it in 78 degrees. I actually used my sous vide set at 78 degrees and let that rise overnight. Yesterday Lisa went to, I said, get some flour please, because I'm out. And she went again to Central Milling, Keith Justo's. And the lady said, oh, you, you know, she said, you should try this. This is einkorn, which is a ancient grain.

Leo Laporte [00:04:52]:
And it's a, it's. You might also know it as faro piccolo puipiculo. It's the oldest wheat domesticated by humans. Although if, if you believe U of al Noah Harari wheat domesticated us. But anyway, whatever, one of us was domesticated. This is a high protein flour. And for bagels, you do Want a high protein flour bread, stacked flour. Actually, this is 15% protein, which is very high protein.

Leo Laporte [00:05:20]:
Now, the only difference is this is a whole wheat. The problem with whole wheat when it comes to rising is the little bits of wheat husk in the flour are sharp and they break up the stretchy glutens. So you don't get quite the rise that you would get with a white flour. I know that, but I wanted to try this. So we're going to do a whole wheat bagel. Now, what I did yesterday is I mixed up the whole recipe from Maurizio from the perfect loaf, and it's been sitting in the fridge for about, let's see, 12 hours, 13 hours, something like that, overnight. This is a very slow rise. This is one of the technique sourdough bakers use is a low temperature rise.

Leo Laporte [00:06:10]:
It's very slow, which gives it time to kind of really mature and ripen and get some real flavors in there. And then he, you know, Maurizio's changed his tune. Initially, you would leave this out at room temperature for a couple hours, then put it in the fridge. His new bagel recipe, you put it in the fridge right away and you leave it out for a couple hours. So these have been out. They're pretty much room temperature for a couple of hours. So those are the unbaked bagels. Now, to make a traditional bagel, you boil it first and then you bake it.

Leo Laporte [00:06:42]:
So that's why that water is boiling over there. I'm going to put the bagels right here. The raw bagels, they're on cornmeal so that they won't stick. The water's boiling, but we don't just put it in regular water. We're going to. We're going to make this water be a little bit more interesting. First of all, I like to put barley syrup. It's in the bagels.

Leo Laporte [00:07:03]:
The bagel recipe, if you look at it, has diastatic malt, which gives it a nice malty flavor. And barley syrup, again, gives you that nice malty flavor, as well as a little bit of sugar, a little bit of salt, and then all einkorn. So I'm going to put this barley, you know, it's not going to flow very well. Maybe it'll flow well enough. It's kind of like molasses. So this is essentially a molasses made from barley. So this does two things. It sweetens it and it also gives it some color.

Leo Laporte [00:07:32]:
So I'm putting that right into the boiling water. There is debate over what you Put in the boiling water, by the way, some people put in honey. I think the barley is great for color. And then there's one other thing. Now, I want you to don your safety glasses now because this is very, very dangerous. This, my friends, is sodium hydroxide, known as lye. It's a food grade lye, not the kind you put down the kitchen drain, although you could. Basically, it's Drano.

Leo Laporte [00:08:05]:
And we're going to put a tiny amount. Now, this comes with all sorts of instructions. You should wear gloves, you should use eye protection. But in the interests of broadcast, I'm not going to do any of that. But I'm going to put a tiny, tiny amount, just a few grams of this lion there. It's not poisonous. Well, it is, but in that quantity, it won't kill you. But what it does do, it makes the water extremely alkaline.

Leo Laporte [00:08:33]:
And that is the secret of a great bagel or a pretzel. That's what makes the pretzel skin kind of tough and chewy. The bagel skin tough and chewy, gives it brown, sometimes gives it that blistered look. So that is what's going on there. That's the boiling water. We're going to boil each of these bagels for 20 seconds aside. Let me get my bagel turner out here. And then I turn the bagels with my bagel turner.

Leo Laporte [00:09:03]:
And then we're going to put it on this cooling rack to cool. And then we're going to do the toppings. Toppings are very important. You put the toppings on before you bake. I'm going to do three different toppings today. I'll show you them. We get our toppings from the Sonoma Spice Queen, who is amazing.

Leo Laporte [00:09:19]:
We're lucky to have her in Petaluma. She does mail order, no salt. Hank doesn't make everything bagel anymore, or I don't know if he ever did. He makes salt and actually his truffle salt would be excellent on a bagel. But I'm going to use this. This is the everything bagel, which is onion, garlic, poppy, sesame, and fleur de sel salt. It's very simple. She makes another one that has some Calabrian peppers in there if you like, a little bit spicy.

Leo Laporte [00:09:45]:
I don't. Now, my favorite bagel is a poppy seed bagel. So we also got that. And we also have sesame. So most people want everything. So I'm gonna make a dozen bagels. Six of them will be everything bagels. Three of them will be poppy seed.

Leo Laporte [00:10:01]:
For me, because that's my favorite. Three of them will be sesame seed for Anthony. I don't know. What kind do you like, Anthony? Everything. Right.

Anthony Nielsen [00:10:10]:
You can. Yeah, I'm in everything. Okay.

Leo Laporte [00:10:12]:
Anthony's sitting right over here. He's switching. He's doing. See, that's the thing. Everybody likes everything. But I want. And I normally I would. But I want to tell you, one of the problems is it gives it so much flavor.

Leo Laporte [00:10:21]:
You kind of don't get the sense of the bagel itself. And so I like something a little simpler. I don't know. That's just me. Let me see what's going on here. Yes. We could do an English breakfast here if you had some blood sausage and beans. Keith, what cameras are we using? These are not the DJI's.

Leo Laporte [00:10:42]:
These are.

Anthony Nielsen [00:10:43]:
Well, it really are. It's extra Muse.

Leo Laporte [00:10:47]:
Same.

Anthony Nielsen [00:10:47]:
It is a Osmo Pocket 3, but a different brand.

Leo Laporte [00:10:49]:
Yeah. So they're all made the same factory in China is basically the answer. And. And this is a cheaper one, right? You saved us a lot of money. Yeah, yeah. They can pan tilt, zoom, but we're running them for the most part in the. In the full. I'm letting Anthony switch.

Anthony Nielsen [00:11:04]:
But I do have from everything's plugged into ecamm and like ecamm does recognize the extramuse webcams that I can just like DJI Osmos.

Leo Laporte [00:11:14]:
It thinks it's an osmo.

Anthony Nielsen [00:11:14]:
Yeah. So, like, what is the wide shot? That's three. I could actually do the. From each of the software, I could control that.

Leo Laporte [00:11:21]:
That's really cool. It's a beautiful day. You can see outside the window in Petaluma that you might see people walking by. We're actually having railings installed on our decks. And the guy. In fact, there's one thing I'm a little concerned about. There's some arc welding going on upstairs. And every time the guy uses the arc welding, he blows a fuse.

Leo Laporte [00:11:38]:
And weirdly, it's the fuse upstairs, but it also blows the fuse in the oven, which could destroy the whole cook. So there's a little. That's good. There's a little drama. There's a little tension. Let me start the boil. Now, the way I'm going to do this, I don't use the Alexa where I normally use the Alexa for timing, and I will for the oven, but the boil is 20 seconds. So I use the timer on my watch for this because it's just.

Leo Laporte [00:12:06]:
It's just easier. And it has a reset button, which means as soon as I flip them I can. Let me get the stopwatch. I can turn it over again. Is that what I want, the stopwatch? No, I don't. I want the timer. There you go. Timers.

Leo Laporte [00:12:22]:
And I have a 20 second timer. Earlier recipes actually used longer cooks, but I'm going to do 20 seconds. So let me see, 20 minutes. Oh, they don't have 20 seconds. Well, well, how. Well, how do you do? I guess I'll do 30 seconds. So I do two at a time. These have risen up.

Leo Laporte [00:12:46]:
They're really. They're really kind of. Oh, there's your camera. They're really nice and puffy, aren't they? They've risen nicely. There's a little corn meal on the bottom of that. So let's do two at a time. We drop them in. They should float if they didn't.

Leo Laporte [00:12:59]:
They haven't risen enough. I wish you could smell this. It's got a wonderful sweet smell. That's of course, the barley. And as soon as my. There we go, I'm gonna flip them over. That's 20 seconds. I should just use the discord and have you guys time it.

Leo Laporte [00:13:18]:
Once they've cooked 20 seconds on a side, they will go here to dry out. And I guess we'll do the everything. We'll do the everything first, right? Let me open up the everything. You want a whiff of that? That's so good. Oh, yeah, you can. The onion, the garlic. So I put those in a bowl, flat, kind of bottom bowl because I'm going to press the bagel into it. And there we go.

Leo Laporte [00:13:44]:
We can take this out. So the boiling does a few things to the bagel, as I understand, definitely toughens the hide. But it also starts a process, I think internally with the yeast. It says, hey, yeast, or in this case, starter, start up, get going. It's not long enough to kill it. The bake will kill it. Now I'm also preheating the oven here to 475 convection bake. And I will do something a little unusual with that as well in a second.

Leo Laporte [00:14:20]:
There's a baking steel in there right now. And if you look, can you see inside the oven, there's also a deep dish frying pan with lava rocks in it. There's a reason for that because I am going to pour when I put the bagels in here. Oops. Let's flip these while I'm talking. I'm going to pour ice onto those lava rocks when I put in the bagels. And I don't know if you know this, you know, professional Bakers have ovens that steam. They actually have a button they can press to steam it.

Leo Laporte [00:14:49]:
I don't have that kind of oven, so I steam it manually. Excuse me. By putting that ice in there. And for the first half of the bake, there's going to be steam in the oven. Then I'll vent the oven. The reason for the lava rocks is more surface area gets more water, more steam, and makes it a really nice, steamy mixture. We don't want to over boil these. I don't know if my timer is being very accurate.

Leo Laporte [00:15:17]:
As they cool off, I still want them to be moist. Put two more in. I'm going to dip it into the. And I'll show you this. This is a little cooler. So I'll dip it into the. Everything seasoning. Can you see that? And look how nicely that comes out.

Leo Laporte [00:15:40]:
And that's going to go on the baking tray right there. You press that into there. These look like donuts, don't they? They are not. They're not that sweet. So that's. Oh, flip these. You can see they are gaining a little color from the lye and the barley. This is ready to dip.

Leo Laporte [00:16:11]:
That's three. Remember, I'm only gonna do six this way. That's four. So these two are gonna come on in. Lisa, we're boiling.

Lisa Laporte [00:16:24]:
Oh, are we live streaming?

Leo Laporte [00:16:25]:
We are live. Hank's watching. He's in Nantucket. My son, the. The professional. The professional chef.

Anthony Nielsen [00:16:36]:
If you'd like, you could. There we go.

Leo Laporte [00:16:41]:
Put two more in. Start the timer. Yep. Henry, you got to come and make bagels sometime. This is. I really enjoy the process of this. Yeah. And they sound good.

Leo Laporte [00:16:53]:
I think they sound good. What do you think? Everybody.

Anthony Nielsen [00:16:55]:
Burke approves.

Leo Laporte [00:16:56]:
Burke says they sound good. I think that. Yeah, I was a little concerned it was too much mid range, but I think it's not. I think it sounds good.

Lisa Laporte [00:17:03]:
Is there a specific left and right, or does it matter?

Anthony Nielsen [00:17:06]:
I mean, it's fine. There's.

Leo Laporte [00:17:09]:
There's really no way you could put it on wrong. Otherwise the microphone would be behind your head.

Lisa Laporte [00:17:12]:
Hey, peeps, what's up?

Leo Laporte [00:17:14]:
There's a little buzz going on. I don't know.

Lisa Laporte [00:17:16]:
Is that me? Yeah. I hear the buzz.

Anthony Nielsen [00:17:19]:
I know is on Lisa's mic. Maybe there's something loose. That's good.

Leo Laporte [00:17:22]:
That's why we're doing the testing.

Lisa Laporte [00:17:24]:
Yeah. Here, Buzz,

Leo Laporte [00:17:29]:
move my. My laptop.

Lisa Laporte [00:17:31]:
Did you talk about how we're using the lovely Sonoma spice Queen?

Leo Laporte [00:17:34]:
Certainly did. Mail order from pen.

Lisa Laporte [00:17:36]:
And they ship internationally. They're small business.

Leo Laporte [00:17:40]:
Spice Queen dot com.

Lisa Laporte [00:17:43]:
Yeah, I don't hear the puzzle anymore.

Anthony Nielsen [00:17:44]:
It must because we were crossing some power lines.

Lisa Laporte [00:17:46]:
Oh, we're re crossing something.

Leo Laporte [00:17:47]:
Power line.

Lisa Laporte [00:17:48]:
Yeah. And then this headsets. Hold on, let me put this under.

Leo Laporte [00:17:51]:
All right, that's it. On the everything bagel. Spice.

Lisa Laporte [00:17:55]:
So where's the chat? How many people are in there?

Leo Laporte [00:17:59]:
Oh, not many. I don't know, just a few.

Lisa Laporte [00:18:01]:
Did we do a shout out that we're doing this?

Anthony Nielsen [00:18:05]:
I don't know.

Lisa Laporte [00:18:06]:
I can't see that far away. Sorry. No, no reading glasses. Hi everyone.

Leo Laporte [00:18:12]:
Take these out.

Lisa Laporte [00:18:14]:
I wish you were here. I mean, if you guys are in Petaluma, I can tell you where we're at.

Leo Laporte [00:18:18]:
You can come over because you're going to want to taste these. We will, I think get all the way to the. It's only 20 minutes for the bacon.

Lisa Laporte [00:18:25]:
Yeah, sorry. They're all wheat because I have a gluten issue. So we're trying to see if this.

Leo Laporte [00:18:30]:
Old grains Einkorn, the oldest domesticated wheat.

Lisa Laporte [00:18:36]:
Yeah, don't get old, everyone. When you get old, like you can't eat as much stuff anymore.

Leo Laporte [00:18:39]:
I can eat it all now. I don't.

Lisa Laporte [00:18:41]:
I wish I had that problem.

Leo Laporte [00:18:43]:
Going to do some poppy seeds from this or are those done Queen? No, they're not. Well, what do you mean done? They're boiled.

Lisa Laporte [00:18:49]:
Should we tell the contractors they get

Leo Laporte [00:18:51]:
a bagel in half an hour? They can. Yeah.

Lisa Laporte [00:18:54]:
Okay.

Leo Laporte [00:18:55]:
Everybody needs a bagel.

Lisa Laporte [00:18:56]:
No, not at all. Okay. I'm just saying I'll. I'll.

Leo Laporte [00:18:58]:
Okay. The only thing is we got to

Lisa Laporte [00:19:01]:
send someone to the store for cream cheese.

Leo Laporte [00:19:03]:
So we got butter.

Lisa Laporte [00:19:04]:
Well, can't we go down to that store right down the hill? Don't they have cream cheese and stuff? Yeah, probably at the sausage.

Leo Laporte [00:19:09]:
Oh, not the sausage factory, but the. You know, where does the market. Up. Up. Bodega has them.

Lisa Laporte [00:19:15]:
Well, that's the same as going to Pell Market.

Leo Laporte [00:19:17]:
It might be a little easier. I mean, it's kind of like a convenience store. It's a little quicker.

Lisa Laporte [00:19:20]:
Well, I have a call at 1. I will run out and grab some. You don't need to.

Leo Laporte [00:19:24]:
We got butter. I didn't know.

Lisa Laporte [00:19:25]:
No, I know, but you don't. You don't. No. Well, I gotta call it one. I will run and get everything and then everyone can eat.

Leo Laporte [00:19:32]:
Thank you. Okay, now here's the issue I need. I only have two baking trays, I think.

Lisa Laporte [00:19:39]:
How does. So this. Does the sound sound okay? Is everyone.

Anthony Nielsen [00:19:42]:
Yeah, it sounds great. But you gotta like.

Lisa Laporte [00:19:43]:
Am I loud.

Anthony Nielsen [00:19:44]:
No, you just need to lower this so you don't breathe into it. Yeah.

Lisa Laporte [00:19:46]:
Oh, am I breathing into it?

Anthony Nielsen [00:19:47]:
Yeah, they're a little tricky.

Lisa Laporte [00:19:49]:
I am so loud, so you probably need this really far away from me. It's like the. The. The neighbors next door can hear me because I'm so up and loud. So is that better? Can you not hear me breathing?

Anthony Nielsen [00:19:59]:
So that's better.

Lisa Laporte [00:19:59]:
So you have to kind of keep

Leo Laporte [00:20:00]:
them down like this parchment on these. That's the easiest way to bake without them sticking. These are ready to go in the oven.

Lisa Laporte [00:20:10]:
We don't deliver. That's cute.

Leo Laporte [00:20:12]:
No, we should deliver. We should. So that's the first batch. Done. These are done.

Lisa Laporte [00:20:16]:
Hey, everyone,

Leo Laporte [00:20:19]:
these are gonna be poppy seed and sesame.

Lisa Laporte [00:20:22]:
Very nice. All right, I'm gonna let you guys work. I have to go work upstairs.

Leo Laporte [00:20:26]:
And the last bunch of them going in. All right, let me do some poppy. Sounds great.

Anthony Nielsen [00:20:33]:
Yeah, I got it up in an hour. There are a few things I would like.

Leo Laporte [00:20:39]:
She said, sorry

Anthony Nielsen [00:20:43]:
I missed it. I should label the headsets like, mic one, mic two, just to make it easier to.

Leo Laporte [00:20:50]:
Yeah, but just put color on there. Yeah, yeah, There we go. I like a lot of poppy seeds on there. Look at that. That's beautiful. You can smell the poppy. All right, that's it on the poppy. And next.

Leo Laporte [00:21:03]:
Oh, no, I have one more. One more poppy. Let's flip these. I am boiling them a little longer because I'm really not. I'm distracted, but that's all right. I think it might make it a little tougher. That would be the only thing. But, you know, bagels got to be chewy.

Leo Laporte [00:21:18]:
And I think with the whole wheat, the. These might be chewier than normal. Okay, there's our poppy seeds. And now I'm gonna dump those out and do sesame. Open sesame. How old were you when you realized that open sesame was the same Was supposed. Was really open? SES me Just now. Just now.

Leo Laporte [00:21:46]:
Today I learned. Okay, we're done burling. You know what I didn't do? I think I can reach him. I should probably have potholders, because everything is now gonna be very hot as I bake this. Give me those silicone babies. Yeah, I think they look good on camera. All right, boiling Berlin is done. Let's put that in the back burner.

Leo Laporte [00:22:14]:
See, we already have one set ready for the oven, and in a moment, we're going to have the other one. The oven is preheated, so we are almost ready to start the bake. But I do want to get sesame seeds on these again. The delicious Sonoma Spice Queen sesame seeds. Let's put those in here. I get fresh spices every time I do a bake because you don't want stale. And you know what, typically we'll use them all up anyway. Certainly did when I made a dozen.

Leo Laporte [00:22:49]:
Everything. Oops. I put sesame on both sides. Is that good or bad?

Anthony Nielsen [00:22:51]:
I don't know.

Leo Laporte [00:22:52]:
That'll be an experimental bagel. All right, good. The boil is done. Let me put a little extra sesame on some of these. Sesame's don't stick as well as the poppy and the everything. Just press those on. And now we have a dozen bagels ready to go in the oven. Now this is the tricky part.

Leo Laporte [00:23:23]:
This has to happen very quickly. I am going to stop my watch. I am going to open the oven. I'm going to put this ice on top of the lava rocks in the bottom of the oven. I didn't mention on top of the oven there's a baking steel. The idea is to keep this temperature consistent. A number of recipes say put the bagels on top of the baking steel. I'm worried that's going to cook the bottom.

Leo Laporte [00:23:51]:
Burn the bottom even. I've never done it that way. So here you go. Here you see the lava rocks. Stand back because this is gonna make a lot of steam in this oven. And now in go the bagels. Alexa set bagel timer for 10 minutes.

Anthony Nielsen [00:24:14]:
Something went wrong. Sorry. She's. She said sorry.

Leo Laporte [00:24:18]:
She's a nitwit. Well, all right. Let me put a 10 minute timer on my watch then. So it's going to cook for 20 minutes total. There's a weird set of parameters here. The first 10 minutes, convection set at 475 with the steam. After 10 minutes, we take the steam out. We don't want any more steam.

Leo Laporte [00:24:38]:
You want it to dry. Now, picking up all the old ice that I spilled and we do another five minutes. We turn them at that point because you want to make sure they're evenly cooking. We'll do another five minutes and then I'll turn the oven down to 450 convection and do the last five minutes. And then of course I'll judge it based on how it looks. But my experience with this is it's pretty, pretty right on. If your oven is not accurate, it might be different. This would be the part of the show where I would start doing dishes.

Leo Laporte [00:25:16]:
But fortunately Anthony's here and so I don't have to. I should put away the food grade lye though. You don't want anybody to actually accidentally put this into anything. That's not good. This goes back in the spice cupboard, hidden away where no one will ever see it. All right, let me take a look at what's going on. The audio's good, says James. What are you laughing at, Micah? Are you laughing at the steam pictures look good.

Leo Laporte [00:25:53]:
Yeah. All right. We have lots of light in here. We actually haven't set any studio lights up, but there's enough light. Maybe there's too much light. I don't know. So let me give you a little rundown of the gear while we're waiting. This is the Rodecast Pro 2.

Leo Laporte [00:26:08]:
This is the microphone switcher and the camera switcher. And Anthony set this up so that these buttons, which normally can be sound effects, actually are connected to ecamm, so they change a shot. You also have a stream deck that he has over there.

Anthony Nielsen [00:26:24]:
Wonder if I could.

Leo Laporte [00:26:25]:
There we go. There you go. So the stream deck. So he can switch it from there. I can switch it from here. Obviously. This is also an audio mixer. So I have audio levels here.

Leo Laporte [00:26:36]:
Yes.

Lisa Laporte [00:26:36]:
Computer's not working.

Leo Laporte [00:26:37]:
Yes. They keep blowing the fuse every time they use the arc welder. I'll come up and help you. Oh, you need it now. They. The. The fuse is. The fuse is back, so it should all.

Leo Laporte [00:26:52]:
The fuse is back, so it should all turn on again. I know. Don't ever do arc welding at home, is all I'm saying. See what else get on those dishes. Yes, Anthony.

Anthony Nielsen [00:27:06]:
Yeah. So on the MacBook, we have Ecamm running Rodecaster Pro 2, Thunderbolt Dock. We have three Extremus cameras plugged in, functioning as webcams. External monitor.

Leo Laporte [00:27:23]:
I have a cam link on here. Is that for my mat laptop?

Anthony Nielsen [00:27:25]:
Yeah, that's how we're pulling in your.

Leo Laporte [00:27:27]:
So the laptop is. Has a dongle that's putting out HDMI. This is just a Mac MacBook Air that goes into cam link, which goes into the Thunderbolt Dock. Yeah.

Anthony Nielsen [00:27:36]:
And then the headsets are the Audio Technica BPHS 2.

Leo Laporte [00:27:43]:
So we. We went back and forth over which headsets to use. We auditioned a lot of YouTube videos. I had in the past used Sennheiser HMDs, but they're a lot more expensive. These, actually, I think, sound very good. I think Audio Technica does really good stuff. So they're very comfortable. And one of the reasons we're using these is because this whole setup is, as I mentioned, going to be for Black Hat.

Leo Laporte [00:28:05]:
We're going to be broadcasting Security now and Windows Weekly on Wednesday, August. I think it's August 5th, whatever that Wednesday that week is from Black Hat, from the Threadlocker booth. So it's going to be noisy background. It's a tiny little table. All this has to fit on the table. I have to be able to switch it. I have to have my laptop. So we're.

Leo Laporte [00:28:24]:
This is really just a joke. We're just testing. I got five and a half minutes to. To use. We're just testing this. But you know, I don't have a camera shot into my oven, do you? I do have lights in the oven and I'm just looking in there and it's looking. It's looking good. I don't expect them to be as puffy because of the Einkorn, because it's a whole wheat flour.

Anthony Nielsen [00:28:43]:
But.

Leo Laporte [00:28:43]:
But we'll see. It's looking pretty good. I'm going to move this up because it keeps. I can't decide whether it's worse to rub against my apron or to hear my breathing. Actually, it's not too bad, the breathing and popping. I'll just keep my plosives to myself. Yeah, I don't. You know what? So we've been, We've.

Leo Laporte [00:29:06]:
I know you've heard me tell this story. We. This house has been under. We bought the house new two years ago and it's been under construction for a year fixing all the things that were bad and broken and not working, including massive water leaks. And we replaced all the railings as well. We rebuilt the decks. So this is the final stuff. It started in May of 2025 and it's now starting to wrap up.

Leo Laporte [00:29:27]:
I think by the end of summer we should be done. But that welding is all of this iron work. We got a really good iron worker and he's done a beautiful job. And so they have to. What they do is they put it in, get it aligned right, take it apart in sections, get it powder coated, bring it back, put it back in and they have to weld it together. So that's what they're doing, a little arc welding. But arc welding is electrical and it's. Our fuses are not prepared for that kind of draw.

Leo Laporte [00:30:00]:
Yeah, I have the clip on mics. I have the insta and the. Not the Rhodes. I have the insta clip on mic and the DJI clip on mics. But there for. I think for a noisy environment, they're just going to be too. Too noisy. So that's why we wanted to do some headset mics.

Leo Laporte [00:30:18]:
Burke says it's excessive. Excessive should I. Oh, you want me to. I can do that. It's not too late. They said you should.

Anthony Nielsen [00:30:26]:
Oh, yeah.

Leo Laporte [00:30:28]:
Behind me. Yes, chef. That's. Please, call me chef from now on. Patrick. Yes, chef. This is not the bear. Oh, you.

Leo Laporte [00:30:40]:
Thank you. Micah. Micah got my joke. Micah got. You didn't even hear it.

Anthony Nielsen [00:30:45]:
I was. I was distracted.

Leo Laporte [00:30:46]:
I forgot what it was, but the timing was good. Micah is an office fan, so he gets all of those. That's what she says. He hears that. 3 minutes, 25 seconds. The countdown is ticking. So what's going to happen again? It's going to happen fairly quickly because you don't want to let too much of the heat out. I am going to don these silicon gloves suitable for working in radioactive environments.

Leo Laporte [00:31:14]:
I'm going to pull out the pan with the lava rocks in the water because we're done steaming. Let the steam come out of the oven and rotate the pans all at the same time within three seconds. The problem with this is I can't see my watch. Oh. And then Alexa set a timer for one minute. She's been doing that all morning. So let me unplug her, plug her back in. Right.

Leo Laporte [00:31:45]:
That's how you fix that. I don't think it's. It's not the Internet. She's got content on her screen. We are using right now. I'm using Fable as we speak. Fable is working hard in conjunction with Opus, rebuilding our sales software. It's doing a great job.

Leo Laporte [00:32:09]:
I'll show you, Anthony, before you go home. It's really. It's halfway done. It's got the sales part done. It's going to get the continuity part done before Sunday when I lose access to Fable.

Anthony Nielsen [00:32:20]:
I mean, even the prep documentation looks.

Leo Laporte [00:32:23]:
Doesn't that amazing? Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of mind boggling. And I also have been so grok. 45 came out yesterday, and even though Jeff said, well, nobody's going to use that, and I agreed, I thought, well, I should try it. This hat looks really stupid.

Anthony Nielsen [00:32:42]:
Oh, timer.

Leo Laporte [00:32:44]:
What? What's. Where?

Anthony Nielsen [00:32:46]:
Is that a real. Yeah. I don't know.

Leo Laporte [00:32:47]:
No. Who's talking? Oh, that was the one I said, alexa, stop. Alexa, stop. Yeah, this might be part of the problem is that there's too many Alexis and this house echoes. And half the time, Lisa will be sitting here, say, play up first podcast, and it'll play downstairs. So we don't know. Okay. In moments, 1 minute and 11 seconds, we're counting down in moments.

Leo Laporte [00:33:16]:
I feel like a goalkeeper in the World Cup. Burke remembered the Joke. Yeah. The voice interface, though, I have. And I was playing with this. I set up Pocket. I love having an agent because you can just say it. Like, I can do it on telegram or whatever and say, hey, I saw there's a new TTS voice to.

Leo Laporte [00:33:53]:
Or text to voice thing called Pocket. Can you set that up? And let's try it and play me the voices. And it just. It's doing stuff for you all the time. The cameras are now. Whenever anybody walks up to the camera announcing they're a person with a red hat and white shorts walked up to the camera or is going down the thing. And in fact, I should see what it said when you showed up anyway. But it's not doing the face recognition.

Leo Laporte [00:34:18]:
Oh, here we go. Ready? Watch this. All right, first thing we do, we take out the lava rocks. There's still water in here. That means it's been steaming all that time. And now I'm gonna quickly. You can get a quick shot of the bagels. They look good.

Leo Laporte [00:34:32]:
They smell good. They're not done yet, though. We have to set another timer. Alexa set timer for. For five minutes. Did it do anything? No. Stupid Alexa. All right, in five minutes, I'm exhausted.

Leo Laporte [00:34:54]:
The temp will go down to 450, and we are close to done. There's the lava rocks. That's hysterical, isn't it? Looks like there's a volcano in here. Yep. We've been making chili today, and I think that's looking pretty good, don't you? Nice hunks of beef. That gravy's gonna be something. I now have the remnants of bagel making, which is a bunch of water with lye and. Oh, hello, focus.

Leo Laporte [00:35:31]:
It's just completely confused. Oh, why? It's really. Is that.

Anthony Nielsen [00:35:40]:
I don't know.

Leo Laporte [00:35:41]:
You know, it's a steam.

Anthony Nielsen [00:35:44]:
You know what?

Leo Laporte [00:35:44]:
I think it's getting steamed.

Anthony Nielsen [00:35:46]:
Oh, let's.

Leo Laporte [00:35:48]:
Let's get this. And it is pretty hot in here, too. Well, no, it's not too bad. All right. You think it's on the lens?

Anthony Nielsen [00:35:55]:
I don't know. The PTZ is not working anymore.

Leo Laporte [00:35:58]:
Yeah, I think it cooked. I think it.

Anthony Nielsen [00:36:00]:
Oh, the steam, maybe.

Lisa Laporte [00:36:01]:
Yeah.

Leo Laporte [00:36:02]:
Oh, well, it'll be. I think it's not that much steam here. I'll put it somewhere else.

Anthony Nielsen [00:36:15]:
Camera down.

Leo Laporte [00:36:16]:
I'm glad. I'm glad Lisa is not here to see this. So what was I. What was I wasting time talking about? Something. Something valuable. We are. Jason. Welcome.

Leo Laporte [00:36:27]:
It's good to see you. We are making bagels. Sourdough bagels. I Showed you the starter earlier. Dolores is her name and she's quite vigorous. She's actually not starter, she's starter. Lisa said, why did you write starter on there? It's pretty obvious, but that is. And I said, well, you know, just in case.

Leo Laporte [00:36:49]:
I don't want you to put it on your toast or anything. Maybe you think it's Vegemite, I don't know. So sourdough. No commercial yeast at all, just the sourdough. We used an interesting wheat I've never. I've made. I've baked with Einkorn, but never used it for bagels before. Einkorn is a delicious wheat.

Leo Laporte [00:37:06]:
Actually, Mike Elkin turned me on to Einkorn. It's the oldest wheat, domesticated wheat. It's an ancient grain and it's quite rich and hearty. This is a whole wheat, so it's going to be a whole wheat bagel. So I don't know how that's going to come out. It won't be probably as fluffy and light. Two and a half minutes. I will turn the oven down.

Leo Laporte [00:37:30]:
We're almost there. Now the next step and I should probably put this all away one more time. I want to thank Maurizio Leo. This is his website, the Perfect Loaf. All of my sourdough baking comes from Maurizio Leo's site. I'm a member. It's worth it. He has fantastic recipes.

Leo Laporte [00:37:51]:
He tests all the. All the different tools. This is, by the way, I didn't mention this, but this is the mixer that I used, the Ooni Halo. Ooni's known for their pizza ovens, but they make a spiral mixer and that is what I use now as a bread mixer. I used to use a KitchenAid. But the oni is fantastic and this is his review of it from a few years back. Oh, no, actually from. He updated it in February.

Leo Laporte [00:38:17]:
Anyway, highly recommend the recipes here if you're a baker and you like to bake. Maurizio is a very serious baker and that's his site and that's the source of this recipe, although it's been modified a little bit over time as I've made these bagels probably a dozen times over the last two years. As I mentioned at the beginning of the show, I stopped. When I went on Ozempic, I said no more. I threw out my starter but I came back to it about two weeks ago for Father's Day. I made a dozen bagels for my father in law and all our workers. We had a lovely brunch and it's so much fun. And then I thought, well, I'd like to keep doing this.

Leo Laporte [00:39:03]:
The trick is to give them away. So I hope you are ready to eat a dozen bagels. All right, almost ready to turn the oven down. This is Maurizio's technique. He's the one who I've always steamed. Often when I make a loaf, a round loaf, a kind of a country loaf, I have French Emile Henry. They look like crocks that have lids. And then you don't have to steam the oven.

Leo Laporte [00:39:32]:
You just keep the lid on the loaf when you put it in, and then you take it off halfway through. Gives you the same effect as steaming. That's actually a little bit easier. That's usually how I do it. Yes. Everybody should have a ferment of choice.

Anthony Nielsen [00:39:48]:
I agree.

Leo Laporte [00:39:50]:
Yeah, it's a really. Oh, there's the timer. All right, let's turn this down. And I will rotate this, which will also cool the oven off just a little bit. You don't normally want to do this, but I think the rotation is a good idea to give it an even bake. Remember, I do have a big baking steel in here, and that holds the temperature when I preheat the oven. I preheat it with the lava rocks, the baking steel, and all that stuff in here, and that helps the temperature stay much more consistent. All right, last five minutes.

Leo Laporte [00:40:23]:
And this. In this case, you could probably do this by eye. Although, again, as I mentioned,

Anthony Nielsen [00:40:31]:
because these

Leo Laporte [00:40:32]:
are whole wheat, they're a little darker, not so puffy as I'm used to. So I'm not sure my. I'll be able to recognize how well they're done. Yeah, that uni is a fantastic mixer. Yeah, we can. We can mail these. We can mail you bagels. That's Anthony.

Leo Laporte [00:40:51]:
What do you want? Oh, is that camera dead? I hope I didn't kill a camera. Gimbal protection on because it's so steamy. Yeah, yeah. Micah can't even eat these. Although, again, Micah, this Einkorn. The woman at Centro Milling, Keith Justos. We are lucky in Petaluma. I mentioned this before, but we live.

Leo Laporte [00:41:14]:
There's a baking store here that is the home of Central Milling, which is considered by many to be one of the best flour mills in the country. If you can't get that, King Arthur's pretty good. But if you can get central milling, this is fantastic. This is what you're using. And the woman at Keith's said to Lisa, because Lisa said, yeah, I can't eat these bagels because I don't My stomach doesn't like gluten. She said, well, try Einkorn people report. Unless you're celiac, of course. But people who are just gluten sensitive report that they get better.

Leo Laporte [00:41:44]:
They're better with the Einkorn. I think that Micah can't even look at a bagel, but I may be wrong. 3 minutes, 32 seconds. Let me just look. I have a nice light in the oven. I can actually see nothing. Yeah, it's on. It's just dark in there.

Leo Laporte [00:42:02]:
Okay. It's because I have so much steel. Thank you for joining me. For those of you who are not into World cup soccer, I appreciate that. For those of you who are. What are you doing here? Yeah, yeah, normally. So normally this is a three day process. Moose espionage.

Leo Laporte [00:42:23]:
And I would be doing this in the morning. We're doing it. I'm a little off schedule. So normally if I want the bagels on a Saturday, which works for me because I have Thursday, Friday, Saturday off, Thursday night, about 9pm, I'll make the leaven, which is starter plus flour plus water. I put my sous vide at 78 degrees and leave it overnight so it starts to grow. That's to activate you already. You start with an active starter, but it even activates some more. Then the next morning, I put all that in my uni, along with flour, castor sugar, which is extra fine baker's sugar, diastatic malt, this luscious Bali Mart syrup, which it just really is fantastic.

Leo Laporte [00:43:09]:
And that really gives it a nice flavor. And mix that up for five minutes in the uni and then make the bagel rounds. For a long time. I used Maurizio's technique, which is to roll it out into a snake and wrap it around your hand. But he stopped doing that. And Kenji Lopez Alt says, don't do that. They just make a ball and put a hole in it with their thumb. And you get much nicer bagels that way.

Leo Laporte [00:43:32]:
So that's how I did it this time. This is the first time I've done it that way, actually. Usually I do it the other way and then you leave that out. I didn't do that this time because of time constraints. But you would leave those prepared bagels out at room temperature, put them in a bag so they don't dry out. But so. But you leave them at room temperature for three hours. You turn the.

Leo Laporte [00:43:54]:
Actually, no. Before you make the. Before you make the bagels, after you mix it up, you let the dough rise as a big ball for three hours. After an hour and a half. You turn it a couple of times, then you make it into little bagel donuts. It sits in the refrigerator 12 to 18 or more hours because it's going to be a very slow rise, very slow ferment in cold temperature and then overnight. So that's Friday night. So you make it Friday morning, you do all the mixing.

Leo Laporte [00:44:25]:
By noon, you've got that in the fridge. It stays in the fridge from noon till 9am the next day, Saturday. And that's when you do all of this. What I. What I've been doing. So you should have bagels if you do that roundabout, 10, 11, just in time for a nice brunch. Oh, no, you. You really wouldn't want to cook a bagel with a gluten free flour.

Leo Laporte [00:44:50]:
It would just be a pancake. It wouldn't go anywhere. Gluten is what. The gluten is what is getting stretched by the yeast as the yeast metabolizes and produces gases. The gluten is what keeps those gases in. And that's why you have air holes in the bread and it stretches it. That's the key to the whole process. You really couldn't have bagels without gluten.

Leo Laporte [00:45:13]:
They wouldn't be very good anyway. They'd be sinkers. 7, 6, 5. Should we just trust and take them out? I think so. And here we go. They are done. There's the sesame and the poppy.

Lisa Laporte [00:45:32]:
Yay.

Leo Laporte [00:45:34]:
And here's. You can't see them because we don't have that over the. I'll have to do this. Oh, yeah, you still have that. What happened? You just cooled it off a little bit.

Anthony Nielsen [00:45:47]:
It was. I think I tried to turn too much and then it was kind of fighting itself, so it went into protective mode.

Leo Laporte [00:45:53]:
So no. So now the next step is to let these cool off for 10 minutes. This is the hardest part of the whole process. You cannot eat these now. You must cool them off. And this is the thing Lisa's very bad at. But you know what? They're very hot, so this shouldn't be too hard. Let me get my cooling racks, which I would have had out by now, but I've been busy talking.

Leo Laporte [00:46:28]:
And because I cooked on parchment, these come right off very easily. I'm just gonna put them here to cool. And we will. We're not going away yet. We will let these cool for a little bit. We'll cut into one of these puppies before we end this. Anthony, is there anything else we need to test?

Anthony Nielsen [00:46:46]:
Well, at some point, maybe we'll put on Some background noise and see, I

Leo Laporte [00:46:50]:
can turn on the soccer game. Let me just turn that on, see how we do. So. I think I can turn it on. Maybe not from here. Hey, soccer game. No, I guess not. Let's.

Leo Laporte [00:47:12]:
I can turn on. Let's see. I can't play any copyrighted music, can I? Kitchen speakers. What could I. I wonder if there's, like, construction noise.

Anthony Nielsen [00:47:23]:
I'm sure there's, like, just. If you search, like, generic audience, like, there's weird stuff on YouTube.

Leo Laporte [00:47:32]:
Just crowd noise. How about the Indianapolis 500? Yeah, these actually feel pretty puffy. I'm actually encouraged they don't feel like sinkers. They seem fairly normal. So I've made quite a mess. Normally. I just want you to know I wash while I cook. This is not how I usually do it.

Leo Laporte [00:47:57]:
Now, where would be the best place to cut these? Probably right here, huh? Yeah, that's fine. All right, well, I do want to clean up a little bit. Diasthetic. Got seeds and malt syrup and everything all over here. If this were Henry, this would have been 30 seconds, it would have been nicely edited, and he'd already be eating it smiling. He's a smart boy. He doesn't do this stuff live. Let me get a cutting board.

Leo Laporte [00:48:42]:
Actually, I'm. Can you hand me the cutting board over there? Any one of those will do. All right, give me the big one. That's going to be our guinea bagel. I do not own, and I will never own a specially designed bagel cutting device. I feel that's for wimps. Yes, I've seen them in stores, but I like to risk my fingers every time I make bagels, so that's just part of the process. They came out nice.

Leo Laporte [00:49:28]:
Yeah, I think they're going to be good. They look pretty good. This is hard, isn't it? Just let them sit there like that. The color is very nice. Some of that's the Einkorn, because it is a whole wheat flour. But some of that you'll see when we cut into it is also the. Yeah, the bottom's cooked just right. That's what you want.

Leo Laporte [00:49:51]:
And when we cut into it, you'll see it's not quite as dark. Some of that comes from the lye in the water and the barley in the water. All right. What do you think? I need some butter. If you're gonna eat a bagel, I don't have cream cheese. Normally what I would do is I would go to Petaluma market and I would get a pound of their fine lox, their Smoked salmon, some Philly cream cheese. You want to have a very thinly sliced red onion, capers, black pepper. And if you really want to be fancy, and I do have some in the fridge, some fresh dill.

Leo Laporte [00:50:28]:
Just a little touch of fresh dill. And that is the best meal in the world. All right, you ready?

Anthony Nielsen [00:50:35]:
Yep.

Leo Laporte [00:50:35]:
All right, let's cut into it again. I'm gonna risk my fingers. Oh, look at that. Lovely, steamy, hot. Yeah, it's actually pretty dark. That's the einkorn. And the crumb is not. Because it's a whole wheat flour is not.

Leo Laporte [00:50:58]:
Normally this would be bigger holes, and I think that's the Einkorn. As I mentioned, I've been told the reason whole wheat flour doesn't rise quite as vigorously is because the little shards of wheat chaff in there actually cut the gluten fibers. All right, who wants to try this? Me. Oh, thank you. All right. You want. Here, I'll give you one. Can you eat a bagel? I can either bagel.

Leo Laporte [00:51:26]:
Okay. Do you like it with butter?

Anthony Nielsen [00:51:28]:
Sure.

Leo Laporte [00:51:28]:
All right, I'll give you the one with the topping.

Anthony Nielsen [00:51:32]:
Oh, thank you, sir.

Leo Laporte [00:51:33]:
Get all that topping. And I will eat this and I will thank you all for letting us putting up with this little bagel re. There's whole wheat, though. You can tell. Well, it's not bad, though. It's got a nice. See, the outside's chewy, the inside's tender. Flavor is good, but it's definitely whole wheat.

Leo Laporte [00:51:58]:
It tastes like whole wheat bread, which, if you like whole wheat bread's fine.

Anthony Nielsen [00:52:03]:
Yeah?

Leo Laporte [00:52:03]:
Yeah. All right, well, Burke's had my white flour bagels. I bet that's good with the everything topping. And then Anthony's going to wash the dishes. Yeah, no, Anthony did a lot of work. Thank you, Jason. Thank you, Keith. Thank you, Burke.

Leo Laporte [00:52:33]:
Thank you, Micah. Thank you. Locks. Master lockmaster, come on over. If you're in Petaluma, kitchen's open. It's a beautiful day in Petaluma. It's really gorgeous out. Not too hot.

Leo Laporte [00:52:48]:
Come here. Come here. Have a bite. You good? Don't go that way. That's to keep people from hurting themselves. This is whole wheat, remember?

Lisa Laporte [00:53:02]:
I know, but you gotta wait for the.

Leo Laporte [00:53:03]:
Well, we put butter on it. I know you like it with butter.

Lisa Laporte [00:53:07]:
Needs more butter.

Leo Laporte [00:53:08]:
Needs more butter. You like it.

Lisa Laporte [00:53:11]:
Just so you know, when I have a middle stick of butter goes on it.

Leo Laporte [00:53:20]:
But tell me about. So this is whole wheat, too. What do you think of that? You like the white ones, don't you?

Lisa Laporte [00:53:26]:
Yeah, but let me go get lots.

Leo Laporte [00:53:30]:
No lox. Cream cheese. Yep. Or red onion. We got capers. Yep. You can see why I stopped making these. Why I knew that I had to stop was the day I had three in one day.

Leo Laporte [00:53:54]:
I told Micah that. He said, leo, you're gonna kill yourself. I remember this. He said, you know, they give you a bagel to test if you're a diabetic, to do your blood sugar. Well, c' est la vie. What a way to go. Thank you, everybody. I wish I could give you one of these.

Leo Laporte [00:54:15]:
They're nice. They're warm. Right out of the oven.

Lisa Laporte [00:54:19]:
Mmm. Mm.

Leo Laporte [00:54:21]:
And, you know, these are good for you because they're whole wheat. Yeah.

Anthony Nielsen [00:54:25]:
Yeah.

Leo Laporte [00:54:35]:
93 degrees in Memphis. I'm sorry. I'm. I was going to be in Memphis last summer, right about this time. No, it would. No, it was in October. We couldn't go because of all the construction. All right, let's end it.

Anthony Nielsen [00:54:48]:
All right. Thanks, everyone.

Leo Laporte [00:54:50]:
Thank you.